Kawika "debunks" Judy Wood on Pilot's Forum

No one should take "Kawika's" word for anything.  A simple case of "if his lips are moving, he's lying".

At the Pilot's for 9/11 Truth forum Kawkia feels the need to refute Judy Wood point by point in an ancient thread that was resurrected in early July:


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=8eca702001d9f2833dee09d670421c97&showtopic=22415&pid=10813014&st=0&#entry10813014

 kawika
 
 Group: Active Forum Pilot
Posts: 449
Joined: 16-August 07
From: Upstate NY/VT border
Member No.: 1,719

 Jul 6 2014, 10:33 AM

 Katsung wrote:

1. "One of the smoking guns in this case is that over 5.3 billion pounds of steel was instantly turned into 2 billion pounds of dust..."

1. FALSE: This is the Judy Wood "steel was dustified" fantasy. The steel was actually removed and recycled. What were all those cranes, loaders and flatbeds doing at Ground Zero? What were all those cutting torches doing?
EXHIBIT #1-- http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/02/23/re...l-with-respect/

Amy C. Sims, "Recycling Trade Center Steel With Respect," Fox News, February 23, 2002:

"The Port Authority estimates more than 200,000 tons of steel was used in the World Trade Center's construction. Of that total, more than 168,000 tons has been salvaged from Ground Zero thus far, according to the New York City Office of Emergency Management.

"Three companies – Metal Management Northeast of Newark, N.J., Hugo Neu Schnitzer East of Jersey City and Blandford Land Development Corporation of Brooklyn, N.Y. – have successfully bid for city contracts to recycle the steel, and continue to bid on what remains to be salvaged."

EXHIBIT #2-- The FEMA 403 Report, Appendix D, page 1, says that "more than 350,000 tons" were recycled by MAY 2002.

EXHIBIT #3-- There are many photos and videos of the mountains of steel in the scrap yards still waiting to be recycled in APRIL 2002.



2. "One video shows the penthouse on building 7 being demolished on the roof just before the building comes down. This proves that a top-down demolition process was being utilized..."

2. FALSE: The penthouse was taken down into the building, does not descend any further than the 47th floor. You can see light there only, from the massive hole made in the roof. If it did go further as NIST claims, the exterior would show significant deformations, window breakage and granite panels popping off. You would also see concrete debris ejecting from the east side. You see none of that.

The WTC7 demo started at the bottom, after the PH was inhaled. The whole facade moves as a unit. It was not a top down demo.


3. "perhaps the most startling revelation is the fact that vehicles looked incinerated up to one mile away from the towers."

3. FALSE: This is another Judy Wood fantasy. The cars on FDR Drive were taken there with forklifts and dropped. In some of the photos you can see the knobby tire tracks 90 degrees to the sides of the cars.

How quickly kawika forgets his hero worship of Judy Wood, or at least giving her way more benefit of the doubt than any reasonable person:


http://911bloggerfraud.blogspot.com/2014/04/co-owner-keogh-implies-ventura-agent.html

 13 Apr 2011 , 21:51 PM 

 

kawika

Writer

Join Date: 10 Feb 2006

Location: homeontherange

Abraham,

You need to develop your own following. Richard Gage is not your answer man. Asking why he doesn't investigate something that you find important will not produce the outcome you hope for. He is investigating and promoting what he feels is important. You must respect each individual's right to do as he pleases.

This type of harangue borders on stalking. Very uncomfortable to view.

You and I have discussed some of Judy Wood's observations in the past. I find some of it compelling and other parts thin.

Please go do research and promote yourself. You will win few friends by attempting to ride on A&E's coattails.

Help Judy with her legal efforts and try to find evidence that her theories are sound.

__________________
LIFE!
LIBERTY!
PROPERTY!

Alas, just more evidence the "truther" scam is imploding.

Get popcorn while it's hot!

Co-Owner Keogh implies Ventura "agent", Kawika helps

Give us all a break.  There are no agents.  Ventura is someone who fell for the truther fraud and is a brand Keogh doesn't support.   But since all the truther brands are frauds it's beside the point.

 This thread 3 year old thread was bumped by Justin Keogh himself, one of the co owners of the 911blogger.com LLC and associated website:

http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-10/jesse-goes-space-beams

3 years later

In case there was any doubt on why he featured JF on his "Conspiracy Theory" series...
http://youtu.be/YsHT4Et4c0c
I put the odds that he is just painfully gullible at about 0.1%

jkeogh on Wed, 04/30/2014 - 4:31am.

Keogh is implying Venture must be an agent or "disinfo" or on the take, a typical conspiracy canard to spread anxiety and paranoia among trusting readers.  It is much more likely Ventura is either a gullible fool or, like Keogh, an active participate in the truther scam.

The video at the link Keogh provides was uploaded yesterday, and wherever Keogh was he was in the continental United States he bumped this thread very early in the morning.   But why? 

One possible reason is, with the withering the "truth" movement, and the failure of Richard Gage or the Rethink911 campaign to inject new blood or money, Keogh is desperate to do anything to make it look like "truth" is a real issue.  In trying to resurrecting the defunct planes/no planes/space beam meme Keogh hopes to breathe new life into the idea disinfo "agents" are out to get them, and point to this as proof 911truth has exposed information "they" are afraid of.


Of course someone familar with the past of players of the so called "movement" can easily point out where this is complete garbage. 

The first pile of bullshit is Keogh's reference to James Fetzer.   Justin Keogh would like everyone to forget his close associates involved with 911blogger were part of Fetzer's Scholar's Group. 
 [list dated June 2006]

 Alex Floum (AM)

Attorney. 

 Aidan Monaghan (AM)

Electronics engineering, explosive911analysis.com

 Kevin Ryan (AM)

Former Site Manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, a division of Underwriters Laboratories

 Victoria Ashley (AM)

Architecture and physiological psychology, 911research.wtc7.net

 Frank Legge (AM)

Chemistry, Solar Track Pty Ltd., Logical Systems Consulting

 Steven Jones (FM)

Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, co-chair of S9/11T and the creator of its home page and its forum

 And a good many would go on to be "enemies" or "disinfo" or visa versa:

Craig Ranke (AM)

9/11 researcher/activist

 Judy Wood (FM)

Mechanical Engineering, Clemson University 

 Gustavo Espada (AM)

Media and Culture, Administrator, Harvard University 

 Philip J. Berg, Esq. (FM)

Attorney at Law, Former Deputy Attorney General, former candidate for Governor, Lt. Governor, and U.S. Senate from Pennsylvania, whose web site, 911forthetruth.com, covers the RICO lawsuit that is pending against Bush, Cheney and 53 other Defendants in Federal Court, Southern District of New York

Morgan Stack (FM)

Accounting, Finance & Information Systems, University College Cork (UCC), Ireland. Co-founder of the Irish 9/11 Truth Movement

Webster Griffin Tarpley (FM)

President, Washington Grove Institute Government-sponsored terror, Author, "9/11 Synthetic Terror"

Constance De Vereaux (FM)

Philosophy and political science, Program in Arts Management, Shenandoah University

 Andrew Johnson (FM)

Physics, Computer Science, Software Engineering

Not counting the outright racists/Nazis/Holocaust deniers:

 James Arft (AM)

America First Party

 Kevin Barrett (FM)

Folklore, UW-Madison; Director, Khidria, Inc.; Founding Member, Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth, mujca.com

 Rick Rajter (SA)

Materials Science and Engineering Emerging and Fundamental Science

 Dennis "galen" Mitrzyk (AM)

Physics and math, Business administration

In fact is someone wanted to map the architects of the 9/11 Truth Scam, Fetzer's Scholars list is a good place to start.  The so called "falling out" between Fetzer and Jones isn't relevant.  All that matters is these people claim to have exhaustively researched proof the government killed 3,000 of it own people, but don't notice they're working directly with members of the obviously racist America First Party? 

Others noticed:

Fartful Codger

Joined: Apr 27 2005

March 5, 2007 - 2:49pm

#56

Yeah. Take a look at that list of full members, who I assume would be the most prominent of this group. Professors of Classical English. Of Philosophy. Of Political Science. Some economists. Professor of Population Biology. Some physical scientists, yes, but they don't seem to be the majority. I wouldn't call them a "huge array" of scientists, but rather a group of sceptics.
People go looking for conspiracies but it's often mere incompetence that's at fault.
The science just doesn't back up the conspiracies. All the philosophers in the world, forming a group called Really Smart Scholars for Truth, will not change that. The group you've cited represents a tiny fraction of the number of people who actually work in the physical sciences. By their collective silence, the broader community of physical scientists have essentially said there's nothing worth pursuing here.
Do we know everything about 9-11? No, we do not. Is it possible that it was an inside job? Certainly. Is it likely? Probably not. Planning a conspiracy takes a huge number of people. Keeping that conspiracy quiet would require even more.
I don't understand the fascination with chasing this particular tale. We get distracted with this highly improbable conspiracy, which involves the disappearance of an entire flight (the theory includes the premise that United flight 93 actually landed in Cincinatti or someplace...) with no witnesses to the event.
The reality of the situation seems plenty bad itself, doesn't it? We know the Bush administration is responsible for tens of thousands of lives in Iraq. Why chase these ghosts when the real, obvious evil has been perpetrated right in front of our eyes?

ETA: Just saw an interesting note in list of Associate Members: James Arft (AM)
America First Party
The America First Party is a bunch of folks who think the Republicans are too left wing. Nice company they keep. Not necessarily a good group to hang your intellectual hat on.

True words.  You can't be so smart you discovered the conspiracy of the century and also be oblivious to something as obvious as a fringe racist wacko group in your midst who isn't even trying to hide. 

Back to the Ventura video Keogh wants people to notice.

The second pile of crap is Kawika's post:

Please leave a comment for the Governor

http://www.ora.tv/offthegrid/askjesse
Good afternoon. As members of the jury it is your task to separate fact from fiction. Dr.Judy Wood's entire argument about the use of an exotic weapon on 9/11 rests upon the Towers' steel being dustified. She conveniently ignores the real numbers.
EXHIBIT #1-- http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/02/23/recycling-trade-center-steel-with-respect/
Amy C. Sims, "Recycling Trade Center Steel With Respect," Fox News, February 23, 2002:
"The Port Authority estimates more than 200,000 tons of steel was used in the World Trade Center's construction. Of that total, more than 168,000 tons has been salvaged from Ground Zero thus far, according to the New York City Office of Emergency Management.
"Three companies – Metal Management Northeast of Newark, N.J., Hugo Neu Schnitzer East of Jersey City and Blandford Land Development Corporation of Brooklyn, N.Y. – have successfully bid for city contracts to recycle the steel, and continue to bid on what remains to be salvaged."
EXHIBIT #2-- The FEMA 403 Report, Appendix D, page 1, says that "more than 350,000 tons" were recycled by MAY 2002.
EXHIBIT #3-- There are many photos and videos of the mountains of steel in the scrap yards still waiting to be recycled in APRIL 2002.
I rest my case.

kawika on Wed, 04/30/2014 - 9:10am.

Kawika's objections to spacer laser theories falls a little flat after years of membership and involvement at Phil Jayhan's Lets Roll forum documented here:

 http://911bloggerfraud.blogspot.com/2013/11/kawika-nist-thread-from-google-cache.html
http://911bloggerfraud.blogspot.com/2013/11/911blogger-mods-and-kawika-dig-hole.html
 http://911bloggerfraud.blogspot.com/2014/01/lets-roll-forum-rethinking-911.html

Kawika was a member of Let's Roll since 2006 and was active on the forum up to mid last year.  Readers  should be directed to this post where Kawika's admits to being open to Judy Wood's insane sci-fi theories and ridiculous lawsuit:

 

 13 Apr 2011 , 21:51 PM 

 

kawika

Writer

Join Date: 10 Feb 2006

Location: homeontherange

Abraham,

You need to develop your own following. Richard Gage is not your answer man. Asking why he doesn't investigate something that you find important will not produce the outcome you hope for. He is investigating and promoting what he feels is important. You must respect each individual's right to do as he pleases.

This type of harangue borders on stalking. Very uncomfortable to view.

You and I have discussed some of Judy Wood's observations in the past. I find some of it compelling and other parts thin.

Please go do research and promote yourself. You will win few friends by attempting to ride on A&E's coattails.

Help Judy with her legal efforts and try to find evidence that her theories are sound.

__________________
LIFE!
LIBERTY!
PROPERTY!

To get an idea of exactly how cynical Kawika is pushing whichever conspiracy serve the agenda of the moment, take a look at his Chemtrail post:

http://letsrollforums.com/purpose-chemtrails-t20880.html

THE PURPOSE OF CHEMTRAILS 

  24 Apr 2010 , 11:52 AM

kawika

Writer

Join Date: 10 Feb 2006

Location: homeontherange

THE PURPOSE OF CHEMTRAILS

---

EUGENICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. They told us they would do it in REPORT FROM IRON MOUNTAIN, 1967.

2. These are the same people who brought us fluoridated water, GMO, vaccines, pesticides, fertilizer, NBC weaponry, depleted uranium, HAARP and who knows what other mean technologies.

3. They are a different species.

4. They are preparing for a new population of workers.

5. They thrive on toxicity.


The link for the REPORT. When you get it, search Eugenic.

http://projectcamelot.org/Report_from_Iron_Mountain.pdf


Here's another good video on N. California Chemtrail activity.

http://www.youtube.com/skylinesdocum.../0/3bhAVf55hOk

__________________
LIFE!
LIBERTY!
PROPERTY!

Conspiracy fear mongering at it's creepiest, complete with links to the Cass-cult friendly Project Camelot website:

projectcamelotportal.com/videos-interviews/item/laura-knight-jadczyk‎


In summary, as the "truth" movement collapses in on itself, the handful of charlatans invented most of the theories are forced to play off each other to convince their readers and donors there's a real movement.  

Keogh has all but snitch-jacketed Ventura,  saying the chances of him being gullible are very low.  But this has always been true, and applies to Keogh and Kawika. 

The chances are very low that Keogh, co owner of a conspiracy company and involved with Richard Gage's non profit is unaware this charade is a fraud.

The chances are very low Kawika really believes that Chemtrails exist, much less that they're for population control.

The changes are low Ventura really thinks the Judy Wood Space Beam Show is real.  

But that doesn't make Ventura, or any of these clowns "cointelpro" or "agents".  It just makes them greedy, predatory publicity mongers trying to line their pockets with the "Truther" scam.


You're welcome.

Steven Jones returns to the scene of the fraud

And he's flogging Richard Gage's dubious non profit and some tired insinuations about Judy Wood:

http://911blogger.com/news/2014-01-11/ae911truthorg-continues-grow-and-response-judy-wood

AE911Truth.org continues to grow, and a response to Judy Wood

Posted by ProfJones on Sat, 01/11/2014 - 8:23pm

• AE911Truth
• Judy Wood
• Richard Gage
• WTC7

Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth recently passed another milestone, achieving over 20,000 members. As of today, there are 2,132 architects and engineers signed up AND 18,144 other supporters, for a total of 20,276.
I continue to support AE911Truth and congratulate their recent campaigns for public awareness and pending lawsuits against NIST. I have expressed my concerns regarding NIST analyses and lack of transparency through the years. I am glad to see this further action being taken.
Richard Gage recently gave a nice summary of the progress of AE911Truth.org, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q18pZXIaiOY#t=1586 . He quipped, "Steven Jones had a PowerPoint. I stole it seven years ago." Yes, he used my slides but it was with my permission. When I was "early retired" in January 2007, I found it increasingly burdensome to travel and Richard has picked up that role, and I for one appreciate that!
Are you aware of the articles available at AE911Truth.org? When I am asked about the hypotheses of Judy Wood, which happened again recently, I'm glad that I can point to FAQ #3: http://www.ae911truth.org/news-section/41-articles/505-faq-3.html - a well-written response.
Many are aware that Judy Wood continues to attack Richard Gage, me, and Niels Harrit by name -- see for example her talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1NbBxDGSkI (especially towards the end).
I should like to add that Wood's attack on me (in this talk) for a vote in 1989 regarding cold fusion claims is misleading and most unfair. The question I raised was -- did Pons and Fleischmann see deuteron-deuteron fusion as they claimed? My main argument then as now is that the observation of anomalous excess heat does not PROVE that d-d fusion is the cause, contrary to claims at the time. Even Fleischmann before his passing in 2012 finally admitted that he should not have called it "fusion". For more on this question, please see my talk-abstract at the 18th International Conference on Cold Fusion (ICCF-18) held at the University of Missouri at Columbia in July 2013. http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/ I was there all week and pleased at the corroborating results presented by Professor Kasagi and others. Some of the startling results have recently been published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. And I assure you, that work is not over...
Finally, I strongly support the initiative of AE911Truth to bring public attention to the anomalous fall of WTC7, at free-fall acceleration for over 100 feet. NIST finally admitted to this inconvenient fact. I have spoken regarding the anomalous fall of WTC7 numerous times, but happily acknowledge that AE911Truth is extending the public awareness regarding WTC7 more than I ever did!

Let's remember what Steven Jones is: a fraud.

According to Wikipedia Jones is a scientist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

Steven Earl Jones is an American physicist. For the majority of his career, Jones was known primarily to other scientists for his work on muon-catalyzed fusion.

What it doesn't mention is his Over-Unity "research", something usually called, Perpetual Motion machines, or more bluntly, a scientific hoax. His research "activities" can still be found online:

Dr. Steven E. Jones' circuit gives evidence for 8x overunity

pesn.com/.../9501835_Steven_E_Jones_demonstrates_overunity_circuit/‎

May 27, 2011 - Professor Jones has developed a variation of the 'Joule Thief' circuit and has shown evidence that its output is eight times greater than the

Physicist Steven E. Jones shows evidence for overunity: circuit and ...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_fGKtmp8Cc‎

Dr. Steven E. Jones' circuit gives evidence for 8x overunity ...

peakoil.com › Board index › Peak Oil Forums › Energy Technology‎

Jun 14, 2011 - 20 posts - ‎9 authors

Retired Physics Professor, Steven E. Jones is working on a simple overunity circuit that he has seen go as high as 20 times overunity

PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

www.overunity.com › ... › Solid States Devices › solid state devices‎

Replication of Dr. Steven E. Jones' circuit gives evidence for 8x ...

www.overunity.org.uk › ... › Current projects being worked on‎

Jun 27, 2011 - 1 post - ‎1 author

Dr. Jones - Current Research and Historical Notes - OverUnity Research

www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2168.0‎

Jul 11, 2013 - 25 posts - ‎4 authors

By BYU Professors Jae Ballif, William Evenson, and Steven Jones

To learn more about Over-unity, go to the Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-unity

You'll notice it redirects to, you guessed it, perpetual motion:

Perpetual motion describes motion that continues indefinitely without any external source of energy.^[2] This is impossible in practice because of friction and other sources of energy loss.^[3][4][5] Furthermore, the term is often used in a stronger sense to describe a perpetual motion machine of the first kind, a "hypothetical machine which, once activated, would continue to function and produce work"^[6] indefinitely with no input of energy. There is a scientific consensus that perpetual motion is impossible, as it would violate the first or second law of thermodynamics.^[4][5]

Since Jones is a scientist, he would know there is a scientific consensus that what he's claiming to do, create free energy, is scientificly impossible.  And make no mistake:  Over Unity research is all about "free energy".  Google search:

Over unity Free Energy

The only reason Over Unity isn't on Jone's Wikipedia page is, so far, it hasn't been covered by a credible media source. So it's rather ironic Jones is making pot shots at Judy Wood, who shares an interest in "Free Energy":

Free-Energy Technology Demonstrated on 9/11 - Dr. Judy Wood

www.drjudywood.com/articles/soldier/soldier.htm‎

KEY EVIDENCE (videos) - Dr. Judy Wood

www.drjudywood.com/wtc/key.html‎

This evidence is central to it all. 9/11 was a demonstration of a new technology; free energy. It can be used for good,

There is little difference between Jones and Wood: they are both using quasi scientific credentials to promote scientific hoaxes and frauds.   If anything Jones is more culpable because he has the education to know he's promoting a scientific hoax.  Judy Wood OTOH is a victim of a complex confidence game, managed and manipulated by Jone's old friend Jim Fetzer.

Jones' other claim to shame is the Bentham Open Journal fiasco:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qROovaGUEI



Dprjones invites Jones to a debate which it doesn't appear Jones has ever excepted.  If readers know otherwise, feel free to comment.

The Thermite Conspiracy - MIRROR (dprjones)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deNNnTNeKQ4


The Bentham  Journal appears to be vanity press that went to great lengths conning the participation of real scientists:

http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA6664637.html
[now only in wayback machine.]

Hoax Article Accepted by “Peer-Reviewed” OA Bentham Journal

Does this raise more questions about author-pays models or this publisher?
 Norman Oder -- Library Journal, 6/11/2009

• Article credited to Center for Research in Applied Phrenology
• Bentham claims one-time error
• Payment models require new vigilance, say hoaxers

In an Open Access (OA) version of the 1996 Sokal affair, when a hoax article was accepted by an academic journal, Cornell University librarian and graduate student Phil Davis successfully submitted a manuscript full of gibberish and credited to pseudonymous authors at The Center for Research in Applied Phrenology to The Open Information Science Journal (TOISCIJ), which “claims to enforce peer-review.”
Davis chose the journal “[a]fter being spammed with invitations to publish in Bentham Science journals earlier this year.”
In April 2008, British journalist Richard Poynder reported on Bentham’s ambitious strategy to launch 200 OA journals and the negative reaction to its recruitment of contributors, especially given that many researches were solicited for publications outside their expertise.

(One apparent solicitation—though its provenance is not clear—has varying font sizes and typefaces, suggesting a cut-and-paste aspect to the recruitment of editorial board members.)
Reaction
While Bentham’s U.S. representative did not respond to a query from Library Journal, its United Arab Emirates-based subscription manager told the Chronicle of Higher Education that it was one-time error (and said no one else would comment).
One commenter on Scholarly Kitchen, Jeppe Nicolaisen, wrote that he long ago withdrew from the TOISCIJ’s “so-called editorial board because I felt something was wrong” and said he was “a bit shocked” to see his name still on the board.

(Another Bentham editor resigned in April after Bentham published a controversial article about 9/11 without her knowledge.)
Library holdings
According to WorldCat, the journal appears in the catalogs of four North American academic libraries (University of Iowa, Florida Atlantic University, University of Alberta, and Oregon State University), as well as five libraries in Australia and libraries in Qatar and Hong Kong.
The implications
Davis received confirmation four months after submission not from an editor but from Sana Mokarram, the Assistant Manager of Publication, who requested that he pay the $800 author fee. He then retracted the manuscript, titled “Deconstructing Access Points.”
He previously had tried to submit another fake manuscript to a different Bentham publication, The Open Software Engineering Journal; it was rejected, though the publisher encouraged him to suggest board members and submit another manuscript.
Davis concluded, “While one should be careful not to generalize these results to other Open Access journals using similar business models, it does raise the question of whether, at least in some cases, the producer-pays-to-publish model may unduly influence editorial decision-making. One may also question whether publishers like Bentham see a lucrative opportunity from the OA movement, considering that academic libraries are establishing author publication funds to pay Open Access charges.”
His partner in the project, Kent Anderson, executive director of international business and product development at the New England Journal of Medicine, commented separately on Scholarly Kitchen, advising, “It's important that everyone in academic publishing realize there is a feeder issue at play -- the swelling pools of author-pays funding, how they're being managed, and policies around their use.”
He suggested that blaming publishers is too easy, but rather “it may be the administrators of the funding who have shown an Achilles' heel--lax oversight, a lack of transparency, motivations to support the "publish or perish" culture of academia today, and an inability to hold publishers accountable for services rendered.”
In debate
Peter Suber, an OA advocate, noted on his blog widespread suspicion about Bentham, noting that Bentham Editorial Director Matthew Honan would not tell Poynder who owns the company.
“The question is whether we're dealing with a very weak journal or with something larger,” Suber wrote, noting that many more traditional journals charge author-side fees.
“Anderson is right that institutions paying publishers should take responsibility to monitor how their money is spent,” he observed. “But the principle is a general one.”
Tom Wilson, publisher and editor-in-chief of the free journal Information Research, suggested that any process in which money changes hands is flawed.

In spite of this, the Bentham Paper is still being used as "proof" Jones, and now by extension AE911truth aka Richard Gage, have a scientific basis to their claims.  Take this comment:

f(failure(Millette)) = Judy Wood?

Hello Dr. Jones. Although the malicious attempts by Judy and her followers to divide the truth movement are annoying, they are also a bit amusing for those of us that do not have our names smeared in public by them, because they signal an end to the era of the JREF-type (so called) debunkers of the thermite hypothesis, which are being phased out due to their incompetence. Ironically, they may have initiated their own demise when their much hyped study by Dr. Millette backfired spectacularly in public as they failed to get it published.

Simon001 on Sun, 01/12/2014 - 12:42pm.

Leaving aside that Judy Wood is just a victim of the 911 "truth" fraud, let's look at Millette.  His paper can be read here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/9119ProgressReport022912_rev1_030112webHiRes.pdf

Simon mocks Millette for not getting his paper published.  But whether or not Millette's paper is "published" isn't the point.  The point is he has demonstrated there was no thermite or thermite analogues  in the dust:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=9732067&postcount=3722

I didn't ask Jim Millette these theoretical questions, though. I asked him, can you find thermite in the WTC dust? His answer: no thermite. Simple. It wasn't there, so it's irrelevant whether it CAN be used to bring down a building; it WASN'T THERE so it couldn't have been used to bring down the three tall buildings on 9/11!

Millette has something Jones dreams he could have: scientific credability in the scientific  and engineering community.  From Millette's paper:

Revised Report of Results: MVA9119
Progress Report on the
Analysis of Red/Gray Chips
in WTC Dust
Prepared for:
Classical Guide
Denver, CO

James R. Millette, Ph.D.
Executive Director
MVA Scientific Consultants
3300 Breckinridge Boulevard
Suite 400 Duluth, GA 30096

Supercedes Report Dated 29 February 2012
01 March 2012

Looking up MVA:

Home - MVA Scientific Consultants, Inc.

www.mvainc.com/‎

MVA Scientific Consultants, Inc. provides analytical microscopy for environmental, litigation, manufacturing, and pharmaceutical industries.

This is not a fly by night operation.  Nor is it someone who has a degree in physics but negligible experience in the field of his claims.    On a related note, 911blogger co owner Jkeogh was a physics student.  Therefore he also knows Jones "research" into overunity is a fraud.   And, given jkeogh's involvement with AE911truth.org and Rethink911.org, you'd think he'd be concerned about a scientific fraud promoting Richard Gage's projects.  The alleged increase of AE911Truth members aside, perhaps this indicates how desperate the scammers are for promoters. 

The traffic at 9/11 blogger is nothing short of abysmal.  Not counting Gold's misguided involvement, most people who believed there was a real basis for this research got a shock in 2009 when not only was the Bentham Journal exposed as a vanity press, then in 2011 Jones embraced perpetual motion/free energy, but when no remaining "sane" person who had public presence(Richard Gage, etc) objected.

A sure sign they were all in bed together by 2011.    Why do they bother pretending otherwise?

But while these numbers might be a cause for celebration in selling the 911 "truth" con, there's another interpretation.  Change this:

As of today, there are 2,132 architects and engineers signed up AND 18,144 other supporters, for a total of 20,276.

to this:

As of today, there are 2,132 architects and engineers signed up AND 18,144 other people defrauded, for a total of 20,276.

Keep bragging about increasing membership, Jones,  All you're bragging about is how many more people have been conned.

Let's Roll forum Rethinking 911?

 A friendly connection between Let's Roll and 911blogger through user Kawika has already been covered:

http://911bloggerfraud.blogspot.com/2013/11/911blogger-mods-and-kawika-dig-hole.html

Whether or not Kawika is Cole or Larry, what's not in dispute is his long association with Phil Jayhan and his "Let's Roll" forum.  Protests in comments aside, "Kawika" did contribute actively to both websites, at the same time, for at least a couple of years.

But he avoided promoting obvious links to 911blogger/Richard Gage, etc.  Leaving the casual observer to assume 911blogger.com and Letsrollforums.com had no common ground.  One is painfully trying to appeal to the reasonable mainstream; the other is in cuckoo woo land. 

But Rethink911.org, a project with 911blogger owner Justin Keogh's involvement via AE911Truth, was promoted at Lets Roll:

http://letsrollforums.com/well-its-time-year-t30204.html?p=254302

 Well its that time of the year again. 

 11 Sep 2013 , 02:04 AM

#1

fireblade911

Thinker

Join Date: 18 Dec 2011

Location: south wales

Posts: 177

Threads: 42

Well its that time of the year again.

---

As the title say its that time of the year again, such a sad day any of you guys on here got anything planned for today? i know there is allot going on in new york today. if you are in new york today have a look at this http://rethink911.org/news/rethink91...3/#pagecontent

Hope you all have a good day today.

thanks fireblade.

__________________
My 911 youtube page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSolid...1?feature=mhee

With approval of some mods, and no comment from the site owner:

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to fireblade911 For This Useful Post:

Bigtexan, hanuri, Paula, The Great Went, thorshammer, Titorite

Previously, Lets Roll users had a less flattering perspective, accusing the 911Blogger website of being possibly "infiltrated:

http://letsrollforums.com/rock-creek-free-press-t23500.html

Rock Creek Free Press: Is 911Blogger.com working for the other side?

---

Re: Rock Creek Free Press: Is 911Blogger.com working for the other side?

---

Oops should have referenced with links...
This article is from the November issue of the ROCK CREEK FREE PRESS
http://www.rockcreekfreepress.com/CreekV4No11-Web.pdf

Full tin foil paranoia, approved of by the webmaster:

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BlatantWorld For This Useful Post:

clive, Phil Jayhan, trueblue

They obviously don't believe agents are infiltrating, because they link to the website a month later, with no protest from users:

http://letsrollforums.com/911blogger-dump-trucks-ready-t23886.html

911Blogger; Dump Trucks Ready on 9/11/01 to Cart off Evidence

---

This was a new video to me. Very telling...Visit link for full-story.

http://911blogger.com/news/2010-11-2...-cart-evidence

But the website has only nice things to say about AE911Truth and the scammer who runs it:

http://letsrollforums.com/richard-gage-aia-ae911truth-t22361.html

Richard Gage AIA from ae911truth Live Online Video Chat

---

Richard Gage will visit Paltalk video chat room entitled "The Truth Movement" on August 27, 2010 (6 to 8 p.m. EDT). We'll be taking questions from any room member who chooses to visit with us as time permits. We will conduct an open mic session after Richard's visit, as "The Truth Movement" paltalk room has very competent people on the subject of 9/11 from all over the world.
http://ae911truth.org/news/41-articl...-on-82710.html

Also If you would like to see a new investigation into 911 please sign the petition www.ae911truth.org Say yes to a new investigation. We hope that you find the room informative. Please feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Thank You Hope To See You.
Investigate 9/11

Approved of again by the webmaster:

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bel_Fla For This Useful Post:

2getherwestand, clive, Phil Jayhan

And

17 Aug 2010 , 19:11 PM

Phil Jayhan

Admin

 

Join Date: 23 Feb 2004

Location: Middle Earth

You wouldn't happen to have Richards email address would you? I am searching for it but cannot find it in my box. I think I lost it.

Thanks and thanks for the heads up on Gages Q&A session.

Cheers & welcome to the forums!
phil

__________________
Phil Jayhan 9/11 Blog | Phil Jayhan.Com Video Host | Frederick Bastiats Audio of "The Law"

Since 911blogger is an organ of AE911truth, it's odd that AE911Truth was never accused of being on the "other side".   Or at the least, users aren't asking the question:

"Hey, wait a minute!  Doesn't the Rethink911.org thing have a lot of involvement from the people who run 911blogger?  Who we thought were working for 'the other side'?  "

911blogger.com is equally oblivious about Let's Roll's website, saying little about the cuckoo woo land.  It was linked to as recently  as last september, with nary a user objection:

http://911blogger.com/news/2013-09-01/coast-coast-am-august-31-2013-other-911-suspects-c2cam-daily-john-b-wells

ENOUGH ALREADY! JET A DOES NOT EXPLODE

I heard Ryan's Coast to Coast AM interview.
He said that the Jet fuel exploded. No doubt there was an explosion but it was not Jet A.
Jet A does NOT explode at sea level unless heated.
There is 40 years of research data showing this. This includes 6 years of quality sampling data accumulated by NASA.
I have links and excerpts of data posted over on a forum board you might want to review for your own satisfaction that Jet A does not explode. In fact a 20 joule spark immersed in Jet A will not ignite it.
http://letsrollforums.com/review-flammability-hazard-jet-t28721.html
The photo taken by david handschuh , if real, shows an explosion from the side "the plane" enters on.
http://911anniversary.nydailynews.com/sites/default/files/impact.jpg

indio007 on Sun, 09/22/2013 - 6:31pm.

But site co-owner Keogh did weigh in:

 Deflagrate is the correct term.

Aerosolized hydrocarbons (which is what you get in a high speed jet crash) are easily ignited, and like many flammable aerosols will burn subsonically.
You can find examples of Jet A burning rapidly in a variety of aircraft crash footage. It's usually ignited by the engine, but in a high speed crashes there are plenty of other opportunities.
Two low speed examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrbt7t1UaPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0O18pQUzS8
"In fact a 20 joule spark immersed in Jet A will not ignite it."
There is no oxygen if you immerse an ignition source. Not surprising.
From the linked thread...
"For the fuel to explode you would need a containment vessel."
Fuel requires oxygen to burn (as already noted, it does not explode). In a pulse detonation engine, you might call that an explosion, but obviously that's near stoichiometric mixing and not STP.
Fuel air mixtures are infamious for _not_ needing a containment vessle to deflagrate.
"If real"? Use evidence. We have 50+ angles of that crash on video, many which show the impact face.
http://911encyclopedia.com/wiki/index.php/World_Trade_Center_Jet_Impacts

jkeogh on Sun, 09/22/2013 - 8:13pm.

Whatever, Keogh.  It's all a con.  Why look here, where the mortal enemy of 911blogger.com is pushing the rethink911.org project Keogh is involved in:

http://rethinkae911truth.blogspot.com/2013/07/911blogger-arch-nemisis-wtcdemo-plugs.html

All a bit cozy, eh? 

Les Jamieson: back to Rethinking 911 Fraud

This is in the first search result for Rethink911.org:

ReThink911.org | Sign the Petition for a new 9/11 investigation

rethink911.org/‎

From December 12 to January 9, the ReThink911 campaign is sponsoring ads on ... featuring Les Jamieson (NYC Coordinator, ReThink911.org), Richard Gage,

How did that happen?  Oh right, it's all a con!  Forgot that for a moment.

http://rethink911.org/news/rethink911-events-in-new-york-city-september-2013/

 ReThink911 Events in New York City
 Watch videos and photos of ReThink911′s event in Times Square on September 11, 2013, featuring Les Jamieson (NYC Coordinator, ReThink911.org), Richard Gage, AIA (AE911Truth.org), Tom Kiely and Lenny Charles (Co-founders INN World Report), Cynthia McKinney (Former U.S. Congresswoman), Vance Green (FOIA Researcher, Activist), and Dr. William Pepper (International Civil Rights Attorney).

Videos and photos follow including this one:

 Who do we have here?  Les Jamieson, Richard Gage,  some random dupe, and convicted pedophile sex offender John P Dinatale:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=265774

24th September 2013, 07:54 AM

#1

cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,508

AE911 in bed with convicted Sex Offender? Following a thread on facebook regarding this youtube video taken on 9/11 this year, the Marine John P Dinatale seems to have been one of their main speakers, boasting 5 degrees and all round support for Richard Gage. Except it turns out, he's also a registered sex offender. http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/off...personId=65694 Following this video on liveleak, there are some questions as to whether he was ever even a Marine. Is Richard Gage getting desperate, or does he think it perfectly acceptable to have a convicted sex offender (against a minor, no less) as one of his key speakers?

What a dream team Rethink is turning out to be!    They even cover him at 9/11 Blogger, where NO ONE is bothered by his criminal record that involves minors:

http://911blogger.com/topics/john-di-natale

Posted by Andrew Steele on Wed, 04/17/2013 - 6:28am

9/11 Free Fall 4/11/13: John Di Natale-- Another Veteran Speaks Out

• John Di Natale
• veteran outreach

John Di Natale is an engineer, entrepreneur, and a former Marine. In this episode of 9/11 Free Fall he talks about his awakening and about overcoming the media and emotional barriers people put up to 9/11 Truth.

LOL.  Good luck with that:

Victim Information

Gender:Female  Minor:Yes

Back to Les: what is known about him?   Again let's go to 911blogger.  This should be instructive:
http://911blogger.com/topics/les-jamieson

Posted by Andrew Steele on Wed, 10/02/2013 - 6:14am

9/11 Free Fall 9/26/13: Les Jamieson- Activist

• Les Jamieson
• ReThink911

Les Jamieson is a resident of Brooklyn and has studied the alternative research into 9/11 since November, 2001. He was an organizer for the 3-year long film series at St. Marks Church on Sundays in New York's east village and a leading organizer for the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative. He has also been central in planning several large 9/11 symposiums around the country and anniversary events in New York City including the Rethink911 rally in Times Square under this campaign's billboard. In this episode he talks with Andy Steele about the 9/11 Commission, the ReThink911 rally in New York, and his thoughts on the American public and the resistance of some to facing the evidence about what really happened on 9/11.

Posted by constitutional911 on Mon, 11/12/2007 - 6:04pm

Presidential Candidate, Sen. Mike Gravel Meets with 9/11 First Responders

• 911 investigation
• David Miller
• First Responders
• Les Jamieson
• Mike Gravel

Presidential Candidate, Sen. Mike Gravel Meets with 9/11 First Responders
http://ny911truth.org/

Now comes the interesting bit:  how between 2007 and 2013 one of the site moderators expressed "concern" about Les:

 http://911blogger.com/news/2008-03-23/reaching-and-teaching-public-about-911-truth-les-jamieson

REACHING AND TEACHING THE PUBLIC ABOUT 9/11 TRUTH from Les Jamieson

Posted by Colombo on Sun, 03/23/2008 - 12:11pm

• Ballot Initiative
• new investigation
• outreach

The following email sent out by Les Jamieson has some great questions & answers to use when speaking with the general public about 9/11 truth & the need for a new investigation!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all,
Since many of you are active in the petition campaign and will be out with us on Saturday at Union Sq. Park, I want to share some dialogue points. For those on this list who are outside of the NYC metro area, these points should also be of value....TL;DR

Victronix replies:

Recommended reading

Les has been involved in providing a stage and mic on each of the past two 9/11 Anniversaries to Judy Wood, Jim Fetzer and Alfred Webre, among others who have discredited our work and even directly disrupted our organizing.
I'm still concerned that Edgar Mitchell, a former astronaut who says that he conducted an ESP experiment on his lunar mission, who says he knows that aliens have visited the US, who is the keynote speaker at ‘X-Conference 2008’ (a large UFO conference in DC), and who is involved in pseudo-science claims like zero-point energy, UFO physics, ESP, and psychic cures, should have been selected as commissioner on the NYC Ballot Initiative. Why? See -- http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871
It seems to go along with choosing Alfred Webre to be a speaker at his groups' 2007 Anniversay event in NYC so that he could claim that hidden laser weapons outside the building caused the attendance to be low for the event.
On Alfred Webre --
Preview of Interview with Alfred Webre
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7314062448902505641&q=alfred+we...
ALFRED WEBRE - "Aliens gave time-travel technology to governments"
"Contact by UFOs is a grassroots education program for humanity," Webre says. He further adds that there are technologies like anti-gravity and time travel in the possession of certain governments that have been transferred by extraterrestrials."
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1080571
On Leuren Moret & Alfred Webre --
"International Citizens 9/11 War Crimes Tribunal"
http://peaceinspace.blogs.com/911/
Links only to Morgan Reynolds, Judy Wood, Ace Baker, September Clues, Total Info 911, Fetzer's Madison Conference, etc. The "Tribunal" is to investigate the role of DEW, nukes, etc. in NYC on 9/11/01.
Mixing hoax or pseudoscience claims with strong evidence is called discrediting by association.

Victronix on Mon, 03/24/2008 - 1:59pm.

Except now 911bloger has no problem with being discredited by association:

http://911blogger.com/news/2013-10-02/911-free-fall-92613-les-jamieson-activist

Victronix is a site MODERATOR, and you'd think she'd reject this blog outright or at least protest:

http://911blogger.com/faq

Who maintains 911blogger.com?

jkeogh

Orangutan.

LeftWright

Victronix

Simuvac

This is lulz:  http://911blogger.com/users/victronix

Victronix

General

About Me

I advocate for high standards of evidence in the movement. Most won't like what I have to say, but it often needs to be said. I don't like it either when someone calls me on doing shoddy, speculative or easily refuted stuff, but eventually I realize it was for the best to hear it.

Website

http://www.stj911.org

Location

California

" I advocate for high standards of evidence in the movement."

And perpetual motion machines, lol!

So how did a site run with the help of someone with "high standards" start promoting Les Jamieson?

There are two parts to that answer.  The first is Jamieson  who has a checkered history with a variety of cult organizations:

Larouche:    

Les Jamieson is an ideologue of the convicted felon, political extremist, and deeply racist megalomaniac Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. and, like LaRouche, is a thief to boot.
“9/11 Truth” has its roots in the activities of people like street activist Dennis Griggs, one of the founders of what has come to be known as the No Police State Coalition. It was Mr. Griggs who could often be seen in the months and years that followed 9/11 in Union Square with a bullhorn, claiming that there was high level U.S. government
involvement in the 9/11 attacks and that the government is covering all that up.

Urantia: 

Les Jamieson is a major leader of the NY 9-11 Denial group. He debated Ron Wieck memorably on Hardfire back in July of 2006, getting whipped so badly that even the 9-11 Blogger groupies were moaning.
He's also a member of this weird Urantia cult.
SNIP
 Nico Haupt, who pointed to this information, appears to believe that Jamieson represents an infiltration by the Urantia cult, but there is no evidence of that. From what this list of the names of some Urantia members, Jamieson is the only recognizable one of any prominence in the 9-11 Denial movement. Indeed, this just seems to be a case of somebody who's into one cult joining another.

 Actually, it's  a case of someone joining any group that can be exploited for money.  Les is a leader, not a follower.  It's doubtful he cares  about either cult "mission" as long as it makes money.

But that doesn't mean cult ties aren't important.  The second reason Les is being given face time of 911blogger is he shares his interest in Larouche's propaganda with 911blogger's webmaster:

 Doesn't he know by know it's run by at least one man with a history of pushing anti-semite/conspiracy bs?

https://dir.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DemocracyforWisconsin/conversations/topics/7729

Ted Tilton Jr.

Message 1 of 4 , Dec 24 10:32 AM  [2006]

View Source

Here is some more information when considering the current history of our country...
[SNIP TL;DR]

See: A Bigger Scandal: Illegal U.S. Funding of Sharon's Likud

www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3003likud_usgangsta.html

The other 911blogger owner, JKeogh, is heavily involved with Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, the creators funding the Rethink911.org campaign.

Correction, they fund it...not so much the creators.  That's another fraud.

 

It all comes back to MONEY.  Wonder which one of these frauds with end up ripping the other off in the end?

Taking bets:

Les "Cult Boss" Jamieson?
The 911blogger Orangutan?
Richard "Milking the Sheeple" Gage?